Any Word On Release Date Of Commodore OS 3.0? And Other Questions.

[Fargoal]

Just wondering if you have a general idea on when Commodore OS 3.0 might be released? Also, how useful would this variant of Linux be as a general daily driver OS for most people? Things like web surfing, watching videos, downloading software, word processing or productivity software, file management or writing new images to USB or SD for other platforms such as a Raspberry Pi, etc? In other words, just general day to day computer use for your average person. Or maybe a better question to ask is, is there a reason why people would want to use a different Linux Distro for certain things, such as software compatibility or reviving older computer hardware? If so, roughly how old of hardware would a different Linux OS be more beneficial to use in making that computer useful again?

[LeoNigro]

>> Just wondering if you have a general idea on when Commodore OS 3.0 might be released?

Sorry I keep missing the deadlines I honestly thought I would meet. Finally, a fire got lit under me with a hard deadline, and as such, it's very nearly ready for release. A new batch of C64x machines are being shipped next week and I'm confident an at least 99% complete COS3 will be ready for them with differences so slight to the final release in terms of polish, I doubt anyone will even notice or care and perhaps they will even be addressed in an update if they exist at all. There may be some placeholder icons for things that aren't ready that will be available through an update (see below), but that may even be the case in the final release. We'll see.

I won't pretend that what I'm doing is all that difficult, but there have been certain issues that held me up, that many would have just let pass, that have now been resolved, mostly satisfactorily. Building a distro, which is open to scrutiny, is tedious and time consuming and its worse when you're a little anal about things like I am. I consider that my superpower. I find Linux to be a fickle beast and difficult to yield to your wishes. There's a lot of stuff you think is easy but when you try, it actually isn't.

The latest hold up right now to a public release, is the inclusion of Commodore OS BASIC, which is something I am ecstatic about actually, which I am told should be READY by the end of the month. Then I want to to be able to make an official 100% certain announcement that will likely put the due date in very early to mid April. Maybe I'll even get enough time to make a video or two.

>>Also, how useful would this variant of Linux be as a general daily driver OS for most people?
>>Things like web surfing, watching videos, downloading software, word processing or productivity software, file management or writing new images to USB or

Commodore OS 2 can do absolutely all of those things out of the box right now. I would consider COS3 only a slight improvement on COS2 really and some might not even see it that way. The only reason COS3 has some urgency for its release is because COS2 is based on an earlier Debian version, which has less compatibility with certain chipsets/motherboards. This is particularly important, as the prime reason for Commodore OS's existence is the new Commodore 64 being sold by www.myretrocomputer.com, and they have a few different hardware variations, with one in particular(the N100) incompatible with COS2 (but not COS3). I have an N100 in my VIC-20x , and it's actually a terrific motherboard.

>> SD for other platforms such as a Raspberry Pi, etc?

Once the PC version of COS3 comes out, meaning the feature set is finally stabalised, there will be a push for a pi port which I am thankfully being helped with. There may have to be some minor compromises but I can't wait to see it in action. In that meantime I also intend to do some investigation into facilitating the addition of pi options in the C64x product line up, probably by creating a 3D printed back plate that can accommodate all pi options from a pizero2 to a pi5 with a port extender, and a rear facing SD card port(where the traditional cartridge port would be). That could lower the price barrier to entry for a fully functional C64x running Commodore OS.

>In other words, just general day to day computer use for your average person. Or maybe a better question to ask is, is there a reason why people would want to use a different Linux Distro for certain things, such as software compatibility or reviving older computer hardware?

Commodore OS has software for practically every computer use you can think of, and of course there are ways to get what is missing. This forum can help in that regard.

The main reason for Commodore OS is as the base install for the new Commodore 64x(which I am the co-creator of back in 2011), so it stands to reason that I would want to cater the experience to people who are already Commodore nostalgia oriented. Commodore OS, therefore, is an extremely functional Commodore fan oriented linux based creation, with some wizzbang(now considered retro) special effects and retro sounds, filled to the brim with nostalgic software and retro oriented entertainment providing 100s of hours of entertainment potential, and each version will grow on that. Commodore OS is a value added feature to the C64x that completes the experience with a mad hacker desktop that wouldn't look out of place in a sci-fi show. BTW I don't make money from Commodore OS, it is provided entirely for free on a volunteer basis, nor am I on the MyRetroComputer payroll. Seeing my C64x+COS babies succeed is the perk and I am grateful for being able to continue to shape those products.

The C64x is a novel computer, you can happily use as your daily driver or even as a secondary computer for that nostalgia hit and guilty pleasure. As a "Commodore" fan consumer facing OS, the emphasis of the OS is much more on fun, than business like some other stuffy self important Linux distros, although you could absolutely run your business on it and do anything like that. The project aims to recapture the spirit of those 80s microcomputers in terms of discovery, experimentation and entertainment. A "personal" computer with a Commodore "personality" (if only through the speech) that is solely for you, and launches straight into the desktop(optionally) like our microcomputers did. It hopes to rekindle something of that wonderfully adventurous microcomputer era of our youth that was lost. A computer that doesn't fight against you and has everything you could want at your fingertips. It's my "vision" of what a modern day Commodore (64) desktop would be. Much more than just a vintage software carousel, but something actually useful in modern day as well. The perfect system to introduce to your kids to computing and have them share in the nostalgia of our youth. I also want running any game ROM as simple as double clicking on it and some progress has been made in facilitating that with more to come. And even if Commodore OS isn't your jam, the C64x makes even running Windows or another OS a special experience.

Have you seen the RetroRecipes video on the Commodore 64x by any chance:
viewtopic.php?t=678

As the prime reason for Commodore OS is as the base install for the C64x size constraints are less of an issue as to what is included as that defines the experience. I'm afraid the size of Commodore OS as a distribution available to the public is ultimately of secondary concern. Therefore, as a distribution, it is packed full of a growing array of entertainment software. It's gonna be a big ISO, but not outlandish. You probably want a 64Gb USB to be safe and they're considered average these days. If people get up in arms about the download size, I'll rip stuff out for a much smaller distro option, but I really think you'd be missing out on the experience I'm going for. I made the games an optional install in COS2, but they and many, many more are included in COS3 by default. If download size is really an issue for some people (even in 2025), I'm considering providing some cool USB sticks if there is interest.

>>If so, roughly how old of hardware would a different Linux OS be more beneficial to use in making that computer useful again?

I'm afraid it's not about reviving old hardware at all. However, you might just find that it runs acceptably on older machines. I even have an Atom machine from 2011(the Commodore VIC-Slim) running it acceptably. I might see if I can whack it on my old netbook just for fun. Your mileage may vary. Certainly a Core2 Duo machine like the (2011 Commodore VIC-Pro) can run Commodore OS indistinguishably.

And there I go writing an essay, when I should be working on putting the finishing touches on Commodore OS and doing some testing. I really can't help myself sometimes. When COS3 comes out I hope you enjoy it. But if you can't, or find it isn't your cup of tea, which is fine, I just hope that people can respect that a lot of love for the great Commodore platforms and their legacy has been poured into both Commodore OS and the Commodore 64x. It's built by Commodore enthusiasts for Commodore enthusiasts, and of course, depending on your particular nature or philosophical outlook, that can be hit or miss, because there are so many opinions out there, and you can't please everyone.

Cheers,
Leo

[Fargoal]

Sounds great, and thanks for all the hard work you've put into it. Yes, I have seen the Retro Recipes video. It's what sparked my interest in the OS. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get it running on a handful of older computers and laptops, since I'm both a Commodore fan, a Linux fan, and a retro 8 and 16 bit computer and console fan in general, so this OS looks to tie all those things together nicely, and as one that is still useful for other modern day computer uses.

I'm a little confused about what you said about the 3.0 release date. Did you mean it will probably come out soon with the release of the new batch of C64s he's making, and that the later date you talked about is for the Commodore BASIC, or did you mean the OS will likely come out at that time? Or, did you mean there will be a further update to 3.0 when BASIC is released?

Btw too glad to hear a Raspberry Pi port will eventually be released too. Just make sure there's a 3B+ version and Pi Zero 2W one too I hope, because far as the retro emulation community goes the 3B+ seems to be the most popular and the zero 2W is very affordable too. The 3B+ hit the sweet spot in terms of still only being $35 and yet was a big step up in performance.

The Raspberry Pi 4 had power issues on release and never sold all that well among the public because of supply shortages and sky high scalping by people for that reason. The Pi5 didn't stick to the dirt cheap $35 pricing like the Pi3B+, and it's caused many people to switch to PC based boards using a CPU with far more power than a Raspberry Pi5 without much difference in price, such as the N100 your using.

With PC based CPUs it eliminates any advantage the Pi had in software support against other ARM boards. About the only Pi these days that interests me in terms of value and performance is the Pi Zero 2W. For $15 they say it's just about as powerful as a 3B+. Great little board for the price. Just wish it had more memory, a full size HDMI port, and more than one USB port. If they also came out with a variant using 3.0 ports that would greatly eliminate the desire for a PCIE connector for most people, thanks to the great speed increases of USB 3.0 (and further 3.X generations of it).

Then again, this is another reason people are opting for PC based single board computers. I like Raspberry Pis but they need to bring the cost down and take some big leaps forward in some aspects of performance. A souped up Pi Zero 2W with the above suggestions for $15 or $20 would put the Raspberry Pi back in the lead far as price to performance again.

Anyway, way off topic. Thanks again for all your hard work! I hope when 3.0 is about to come out you contact Retro Recipes and ask if he'll do a video on it! It would greatly get the word out (again). Unfortunately when his video on 2.0 came out your download issues at that time probably caused many Commodore fans to give up on trying out OS 2.0. Just bad timing.

He seemed rather surprised, impressed, and excited to further explore Commodore OS 2.0 in that video when he was reviewing the new C64s being made. Almost like he wasn't even aware of the OS until powering on the new C64 for the first time? Maybe I'm remembering things a bit wrong but I don't think he was aware of it before? I'll have to rewatch the video. It's a great one to watch again anyway.

But my point is I bet he'd be very excited to do a video on the new 3.0 OS. I think he even mentioned in that video that he'll have to do a future video on OS 2.0 and explore it more because that video he was doing was mainly about the new C64 hardware and not specifically about the OS? Again, I need to watch it again to see if I'm remembering right.

[LeoNigro]

I feel bad that the final release to the public version, of COS3 won't be available for C64x hardware being shipped in the short window before its completion. But as I said, there will probably be minimal difference. Worst case scenario, they download the public release on their own, and install it using the tools in COS3, like Rufus.

I too like the prospect of a much cheaper pizero2 C64x running COS respectably. I have one I'm yet to test on. I've bought every version of Pi so far except the pi5 and compute module.

Peri, was going to showcase more of the OS, but he told me that it would probably be better for users to enjoy exploring it on their own, and I guess he isn't wrong. I do wish he had shown off more of the window selection transitions. There's one that I've now mapped to control + tab, which was available on COS2, but had an obscure key combo, which I use almost exclusively now to select windows. Peri knew there was a Commodore OS but I gather he had not seen it by his reaction. I think he's more of an Apple user than PC, as he was making comparisons to it. You can't really use Windows without Alt + Tab, and he didn't touch it once. I also moved a few key combos that might fire off during keyboard and mouse driven games, as well as the middle mouse click for workspaces.

Peri is definitely an advocate for the Commodore 64x, but I'm not sure if he has any plans to cover it in more detail. He might mention it I guess, and I do notice the animated wallpaper running in the background in his videos since. He'll definitely be getting COS3 but we'll see if he wants to cover it.

I didn't realise pi4 was known for power issues. (Edit: oh yeah, I remember now.) That explains why I burnt out an SD card on it. I assumed it was a dodgy power supply and haven't tried it since. Hmm. It might be broken. Maybe that's a good enough excuse to buy a pi5 or pi500(?).

Unfortunately when his video on 2.0 came out your download issues at that time probably caused many Commodore fans to give up on trying out OS 2.0. Just bad timing.

It was only a problem with the direct download, but the torrent was good. COS2 was initially released as a torrent and my experience when tested on a friend's PC elsewhere was that it was really quick. I even torrented it on my phone really quickly. I doubt I'll find a host for a 32Gb+ ISO, so COS3 will also be released as a torrent. Maybe archive.org will let me. We'll see. My thanks goes to the hundred or so continuous seeders.

I would love to hear what success you have installing COS2 or COS3 on older hardware. I know COS1 would work on even older hardware, and the only catch there is access to nvidia drivers and no still working repositories. The experience is the same (arguably better) and there's still a lot of great software installed.

Thank you for your kind words....

[Fargoal]

As a general rule of thumb without going into hardware specifics, do you think a laptop that originally came with Windows 8 will be able to run COS 3.0? I've also got a much older one that came with Vista. Do you think it could run either COS V1 or 2?

I'm planning to set both these up with partitions and a multi boot menu for your OS, Batocera, and another popular current version of some Linux OS. Gonna do the same with a few older PCs too, and when your OS comes out for the Pi I'm gonna do the same for a Raspberry Pi 3B+, maybe a couple Pi Zero 2w's, and perhaps might do some used market shopping for a Lenovo PC in the small form factor to do that on too.

I like the looks of those SFF office PCs. They look like a 1980's or 1990's game console and have plenty of IO ports compared to a Pi. I'm not the most informed on buying PC hardware though, so if anybody has any recommendations for a SFF PC in the south of $75 range I would welcome any advice.

Keep in mind I'm only interested in emulation of computers and consoles from the 8 and 16 bit era, or up until the late 1990's approximately, so I don't need a powerhouse PC to play the modern stuff. Just something to get me by with emulation and with some modern day web surfing and Linux productivity stuff.

I am tempted by the Pi Zero 2W just because of its $15 price, but one thing that bugs me is it's lack of enough USB ports and full size HDMI. Ran across a case and expansion system for it called the Argon Pod. You can buy each expansion/case module separately as needed. Pretty cool and cheaply priced. The case is aluminum for passive cooling. Expansion modules stack/plug into it on top of bottom. There's a module/case add-on that gives you more USB ports and full size HDMI, and another one for Ethernet/etc expansion.

Really slick system, but I'm still torn between going this route or just buying a SFF dirt cheap used office PC that's going to be around the same price when it's all said and done and has much more and better IO such as USB 3.X and internal SATA, as well as the ability to upgrade the RAM or CPU usually, whereas with a Pi Zero 2W you can't do that and it also isn't going to be able to do 4K streaming.